Sex and Self-Control

I ran across this image a couple of weeks ago while looking for an image for another post. I had a very strong negative reaction to the image, as I suspect most men would. I have no idea how most women will see the image, but I suspect it’s different.

Sex and Self-Control

I think most men will see the image as a woman, or women in general, trying to limit men’s sexuality. The why for that is interesting.

In the bad old days, it was assumed men had little or no control over their sexuality, and women were expected to keep men from going too far or getting too aroused. This lead to over the top calls for modesty, blaming the victim for being raped, and it being the woman’s fault if pre-marital sex resulted in pregnancy. It was an ugly double standard, and sadly it existed in the church as well as society as a whole. What’s more, it was not just men pushing this. Plenty of women blamed women who “let men” do things they should not have, and plenty of women felt it was a wife’s job to limit sex in her marriage. (My mother took my wife aside and said, “You don’t have to have sex every day.”)

Today the pendulum is headed for the other extreme. We have women who think men should not notice if they go topless (free the nipple for example). We have women who blame men for getting aroused in a situation that would arouse any man. Apparently a woman should be free to wear anything she wants and do anything she wants and not have some man get aroused by it unless she wants him to get aroused.

Part of the issue is when and where self-control happens. Some women get upset that men are aroused by what they see. As much as some of us would like to be able to turn that off, we can’t. What we can do, and should do, is learn to turn both our eyes and our minds away from any source of arousal other than our wife. Something different is needed in marriage. He can’t help getting aroused when he sees you half naked, but he does need to resist always throwing you on the nearest flat surface for a quickie. It should be okay with you that your body arouses him (actually, it should be way more than okay), and he should respect your not wanting to be groped every time you show a bit of breast.

I’m talking to the men about this tomorrow over on The Generous Husband. Feel free to read along there and comment.

Great Post: Should You Track the Frequency of Sex in Your Marriage? | Hot, Holy & Humorous ◄ I know a lot of men do this, and some women get upset by it. J has a good perspective on the issue.

This week’s TMB survey is How hurtful/harmful/destructive is looking at porn for a marriage? ◄ I’d really appreciate it if you would take a few minutes to do this one.

~ Paul – I’m XY and don’t think most of us understand what the Bible says about self-control in general, much less when it comes to sex.

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30 Comments on “Sex and Self-Control

  1. It is interesting that you remarked upon the picture you chose, so I looked at it and took note of how I felt and thought.

    To me, it is odd and confusing, because if I had to present that sign to my husband, it would be coupled with a serious face and pleading eyes, not a smile looking at the sign. And it wouldn’t be about our married sexuality. It would be about any opportunity he has to experience sexuality outside our marriage….internet searches for pictures or videos of women who fit his fantasy ideal, watching mature TV series or rated r movies full of sex and nudity, watching music videos of his favorite rock songs set to near naked women gyrating and touching themselves, and while he doesn’t seem to deliberately look at outright pornography, I do know it is made available to him from time to time at work and I can’t say that I trust him to not indulge.

    For me, I want nothing more than to be his one and only…for him to control himself sexually to a point of actively turning against the smut of this world and turning to God and to me. Instead of excusing watching the tv series and music videos, (and on the other side of the coin limiting our marriage bed and not doing much of anything to bring me to orgasm) I want him to turn them off and turn to me.

    So, in essence, I want him to control his sexuality outside the marriage bed, but set himself free inside the marriage bed.

    • @Libl – Your final paragraph sums up my post to the men on this tomorrow. (GMTA!)

      I hear your pain. I hear it more and more from more and more women. Doing the XY Code has made me far more aware of how much porn hurts women, and their marriages, and their sex lives. I’m trying to figure out how to communicate that to men because most of them (virtually all of them actually) don’t get it. Men say women over react to porn, and that may be true, but they “overreact” because it cuts them to the core. How do I get men to stop looking at what they see as overreacting and understand their porn use is tearing their wife apart?
      Paul Byerly recently posted…Friday Flashback: Why She Says No to Sex And What You Can Do About ItMy Profile

      • You asked, “How do I get men to stop looking at what they see as overreacting and understand their porn use is tearing their wife apart?”

        I once got really upset when I was invited to go hang out with hubby (then boyfriend) and his friends while they worked on projects in a garage. The garage owner had the latest Playboy calendar up. I was very upset by it. The oldest member of the group, a confirmed bachelor, told me that it means nothing. It is a picture of a beautiful, naked woman, and as men, they appreciated the beauty and enjoy looking at the nudity. Simple as that.

        The men didn’t understand why I was so upset because the calendar, and their enjoyment of it had nothing to do with me.

        That point of view has followed into marriages.

        Stealing from work has nothing to do with me, either, but it certainly affects me if my husband did it and got fired and goes to jail! All sin has consequences that are far reaching. Arguing with my husband has nothing to do with my children, but it can cause long term damage to them.

        As for over-reacting, I guess God is over-reacting when in His Word He clearly says that fornicators, whoremongers, and adulterers will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, and looking at a woman to lust after her is committing adultery with her in his heart.

        I don’t sin because I actively hate Jesus. I love Jesus. In my mind my sin has nothing to do with Him. I love Him and appreciate Him as my God, but fact is my sin has EVERYTHING to do with Him despite how I feel, because He took my sin to the cross. To sin or poke around other gods/idols is an offense and an affront to Jesus and affects our relationship and fellowship deeply, even though in my mind it has nothing to do with how I feel about Jesus.


          I recently heard this song, and as I listened to the words, even though it is usually attributed to the loss of a loved one, I was amazed at how much it reminded me of how I feel about my marriage at times…and how I empathize with wives with porn-using husbands. My husband doesn’t even use outright porn, at least not intentionally, but I stated above about what he does use and how our marriage bed is.

          It is a loss…it is like he is here but not here. It is like the singer says, if you’re leaving, just leave! Stop lingering and continually causing so much pain. As the Bible says, “choose you this day whom you will serve.”

          The singer says she was there for (him), through better or worse. She says (he) still has all of her. Sounds like a wife fighting, fighting for her marriage, for her sanity, but the husband keeps that one foot outside the marriage. It is like he is standing on the front porch always looking out away from his house and family…not looking in, not coming in and joining…but then saying, “what are you complaining about? I am here, aren’t I? I am happy to be on this porch (I still find you attractive, I don’t want to leave), but that doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy other real estate.

          But, he isn’t really there.

          This song exhibits some of the crushing pain.

          I feel like my husband has one foot in the world and one foot in,l the home. He isn’t invested in us. Just like when we continually sin, how can we invest in the Lord? You cannot serve two masters.

          Why do women “overreact”? Because a covenant is a spiritual bond, too. Marriage and its vows go beyond just the paper filed in the county building and pictures in an album. The sexuality aspect is so sacred God designed it ONLY for marriage, and it mirrors the intimacy we have with Him. When a husband (or wife) chooses to engage in sexual sin, it breaks that covenant. And breaking a covenant is painful. Agonizing. Look at Christ on the cross. God Himself had to turn away. Imagine the agony of that moment. Covenant, intimacy was broken momentarily while all of our garbage was sacrificed through Jesus and he cried, “my God, my God, why have You forsaken me?”

          I think men see porn as a thing, a consumable…like a cigarette or a beer or hot wings or a tank of gas in an ATV. It brings them temporary escape and pleasure. It isn’t about hurting anyone. Iguy doesn’t smoke to give his child second hand smoke asthma. He smokes because he likes it and enjoys the nicotine effects. Guys don’t see humans, daughters created by God, sisters, mothers, aunts…a wife sees another woman sure as if she were already laying in their bed with his semen between her legs.

          • @Libl “I think men see porn as a thing, a consumable…” & “Guys don’t see humans, daughters created by God…”

            I think you’re right. When I was using porn – from age 7 to 15, I didn’t see the porn images as women. They were sexual things for my enjoyment. Even back then I wouldn’t have been sexual with just any girl who was willing – for me sex required an emotional connection. But masturbating to an image of a woman was fine. It wasn’t sex, it was something else, something similar but not the same.

            Is part of this that we have learned to see the actors on TV and movies as not real people? We see them do bad things and get hurt; we see them kill and get killed, and we don’t react as we would if they were “real people”. Porn is one more performance. It’s not real, it’s a show. What we fail to grasp is that sexual “entertainment” is different than most other kinds of entertainment. Our minds don’t hold it “out there” the same way it does other things. Sexual arousal draws us in, involves us, connects us. Add a self-induced orgasm and it’s more of a sex act than we want to admit.

            I suppose it’s easier for me to see this because I’ve had no porn exposure in years and I honestly have no desire to look at it. I can be honest about it because it doesn’t mess with something I want.
            Paul Byerly recently posted…Sex, Self-Control, and The BibleMy Profile

  2. Libl,

    I’m sorry for your marital sexual issues. I hope I find a woman to marry who is someone I can barely resist ravishing all the time, and I hope just as much that she has trouble keeping her hands off of me.

  3. I had a much different reaction to that photo. I’m a wife, and a higher drive wife at that.

    I “saw” a typical, normal, beautiful, worthy, lower drive wife showing the sign to ME, and telling me to get MY sexuality under control. That my strong desire for my husband is out of place. That I’m not worth the feelings I have for him. That I should be more like a “normal” woman. That my husband would be happier if I would stop desiring him too much, and perhaps then he’d want to pursue me more often. I saw it as one of the better women out there trying to “put me in my place.”

    Crazy, maybe, but that’s what I saw. Initially it kinda made me upset. Kind of like she was saying “you’ll never be as good as me, so you might as well just accept that and get control over your sexuality because you’ll never be good enough to deserve the feelings you have.”

    Interesting how we each see things through our own filter.

    • No, not crazy at all. The image in question is deliberately ambiguous (it’s a stock photo, it has to be) so when it was presented to you without any context, you then had to interpret it in a way that made sense to you. Your interpretation is based on the context of your personal lived experience (your “filter”), and as such is every bit as valid as Paul’s or anyone else’s. I have my own interpretation which is different (which I’ll be sharing later on since I don’t have time at the moment this morning), but that doesn’t invalidate yours or Paul’s or anyone else’s. The image is so vague and open to interpretation that I feel like it’s almost a work of art!

  4. I’m back! Anyone miss me? No? Oh well, that’s OK. :-P Anyway, I wanted to get into my interpretation of the image, but didn’t have time earlier since I could already tell it’s going to be a lengthy post. Bear with me.

    Here goes. So, I’m an asexual (no, that’s not a typo, I meant it to be one word). This needs to be said before anything else, or nothing else in this comment will make any sense. For those of you who don’t know, an asexual is someone who does not experience sexual attraction towards any gender or sex. I won’t go into it in great detail here, but if anyone would like to learn more about asexuality, I would recommend you check out for more information (and this thread in particular:

    I’ve been asexual my whole life, but have only recently discovered this fact about myself. This means that for much of my life, I didn’t realise that I was in any way different from everyone else. It means, more importantly, that I thought EVERYONE ELSE was like me. I thought everyone was just exaggerating their need and desire for sex.

    I had only my own experience to compare with then, and my experience had been and continues to be that I don’t desire sex or need it to feel happy, loved, or wanted. So it was only natural to think others were the same way; but my reasoning (I now realise) was flawed. It was as if everybody but me had a third eye on the back of their head, but I couldn’t see it because their hair concealed it, so I didn’t believe it really existed for other people because I didn’t have a third eye. Weird analogy, I know, but I think it works.

    The biggest “aha!” moment for me once I figured out my orientation was the sudden understanding that allosexuals (an umbrella term for everyone who’s not asexual, BTW) really weren’t exaggerating their feelings at all. They really do need sex, in a way that I do not. It wasn’t that they lacked “self-control,” but rather sexual desire/attraction is just a part of their fundamental nature.

    Prior to this realization, I just thought that it wasn’t that hard to control one’s sexuality, and that other people just couldn’t be bothered to try. How could I have thought otherwise, given the evidence at my disposal? For me, it requires zero effort to not think about sex or lust after anyone, much less control my behavior. And if I, a sinner saved by grace alone, could do it, what was their excuse? If it was easy for me, then anyone could do it just as easily. That was how I reasoned, and it’s a prime example of how to reason logically to the wrong conclusion. I know better now, thankfully. :)

    I’m sure you’re all wondering what any of this has to do with the picture in Paul’s post (assuming anyone’s still reading at this point). But it’s important because it gives context to what I’m about to say; it’s the “filter” of my perceptions.

    When I look at the image, I see a young person (female in appearance), who I interpret to be a fellow asexual, but one that hasn’t yet discovered it. Someone who, like I used to, thinks that not only is it possible for allosexuals (of all genders) to control their sexuality, but that they SHOULD. And makes me feel a kind of fond amusement at her (and my former) naivety. It makes me feel like gently taking her aside and saying, “oh honey, that’s not how sexuality works for most people, you know,” and explaining to her that she’s probably asexual.

    So that’s my interpretation, and it’s probably going to be very different than most people’s, and that’s OK. I’m doubt there’s a wrong way to interpret this very ambiguous stock photo. It’s like a Rorschach test!

    • @Amazing Ace – Thanks for your comment.
      Our first face to face with an asexual was during our RV travels. I had mentioned in passing at a gathering that I would like to talk with a true asexual. The next day a woman contacted us saying she was asexual and that she and her husband would be happy to talk with us about it. They were very open and it was very educational.
      BTW, while sex is not a need for her, and she has never had an orgasm with her husband (and alone only a few times and with a great amount of effort) they have a good sex life. She sees sex as important for both of them and makes sure it happens. While she feels no sexual attraction to her guy, she very much loves him and wants to be with him.
      And like you, it took her awhile to figure out she was asexual. It was her husband who suggested it, and when she looked into she saw herself.
      Paul Byerly recently posted…Friday Flashback: Why She Says No to Sex And What You Can Do About ItMy Profile

      • Oh, you’ve heard asexuality? That’s great! Not many people have, and not everyone who knows about it believes it actually exists, so it’s nice to find someone outside the community who acknowledges it. :)

        That’s cool that you could meet that couple and talk with them about asexuality. I only know one other confirmed ace (that’s slang for “asexual”) IRL. It’s estimated that about 1% of the population is asexual, so it’s kind of rare but not so rare that you have no chance of ever meeting one (or several). Based on my research on the subject, I can confirm that the her experiences as an asexual are not unusual. Lots of aces (not all, but many) can and do have sex with their allosexual partners solely out of love and for the partner’s benefit, not because they feel any innate desire for sex. However, it often requires lots of communication, respect for personal boundaries, and time to build up enough trust before an ace person feels comfortable and safe enough with their partner to have sex with them. For this reason, many aces choose to stay single (even though most of them still experience romantic attraction) or date only other asexual or ace spectrum folk.

        It’s nice that her husband was able to help figure out her orientation, I bet that helped their marriage immeasurably. I have a theory that a lot of the people (especially Christians) who end up in sexless marriages have unknowingly married an asexual who is unaware of their orientation, which causes many problems. Many of the stories I’ve seen written from the refused spouse’s perspective read like the mirror image of the stories I’ve read written from the perspective of an asexual spouse who got married before finding out they were ace, almost word for word. So I figure there has to be some overlap between the two.

        Perhaps I can make myself useful here, by giving you and your readers an asexual’s perspective on things, which you might find helpful. :) This would please me, at any rate, to feel like I’m giving back in some small way, since I have found this blog (and others like it) to be an invaluable resource in helping me to “decode” the allosexual mind. Even if I don’t necessarily agree with everything you and your other readers say, it still provides useful insight into how the other 99% of humanity thinks. It’s my Christian duty to love my neighbor, and I can’t do that very well if I don’t understand my neighbor on even an intellectual level. So I read and research and ask questions and generally make a nuisance of myself in the process, lol. The least I can do in return is provide some insight of my own.

        • @Amazing Ace – I’ve been aware of it a good while. It was nice to talk with someone.
          I’m sure some marriage sexual conflicts are because of an asexual who does not know or is unwilling to admit it. But given the 1% rate of this (which is what I’ve seen too) that can’t explain many such marriages
          The difficulty, especially with women, is that being messed up by past abuse or bad sex can make someone think they are asexual when they are not. If they really chased it down they would find this is not true, but it feels good and it’s easy, so they claim it.
          Glad to have you here, love having different perspectives.
          Paul Byerly recently posted…Friday Flashback: Why She Says No to Sex And What You Can Do About ItMy Profile

          • Yes, but the 1% estimate is only for the population as a whole, it’s not looking at the section of the population living in sexless marriages. If one was to narrow one’s sample to that just that section, you might find a much higher rate of asexuality than in the general population. Like, if you go to the Superbowl, then you might expect only 1% of the crowd to be ace, but if you go to an asexual meet-up, then the chances are pretty darn good that 100% of everyone else in attendance is ace, you see? Now I’m NOT saying I think it accounts for all the sexual problems couples face, far from it. But I do think it’s possible that aces who are unaware of the fact when they marry have a much higher probability of ending up in a sexless marriage than the average allosexual. After all, we are people who literally have little to no desire for sex. But, as I said, it’s just a theory based on my observations, please feel free to take it with a grain of salt. ;-)

            Even if someone is asexual because of past abuse (or some other cause), that doesn’t mean that they aren’t real asexuals. There’s lots of things like abuse that CAN cause asexuality (though none of them universally DO), such as hormone imbalances, mental illness, or disability. Some people start out not being ace, and then one of these conditions comes along and makes them that way. Usually if it’s a conditions that can be treated, they will seek treatment and be cured, and the asexuality goes with it, but sometimes it remains even when the other condition has been successful treated. Also, there are many disorders that can cause asexuality in some with no cure. For such people, their condition remain a fixed part of their identity, and their asexuality right along with it. Since both are permanent for such people, the distinction between “real” aces who are that way naturally, and so-called “fake” aces who are that way for some mental or physical reason, is moot. It makes no difference either way, their asexuality is very real to them regardless.

            Of course, this is NOT to say one shouldn’t seek counselling if one has suffered abuse. One definitely SHOULD. But don’t do so with the expectation that it will “fix” something that is not inherently “broken.”

            Okay, that’s all I got for now; hope you’ve found it somewhat educational! Thanks for listening, and making me feel welcome, Paul. It took a certain amount if courage for me to even come out on this blog (not knowing your views on asexuality in advance), and you took it well all things considered, so thank you. I look forward to many a lively discussion! We can learn a lot from each other, you and I.

            • @Amazing Ace – Thanks for your courage – I do understand the risk. I too look forward to sharing and learning.

              I would suggest we have people who are asexual and others who are suppressed-sexual. The first is how someone is, it’s because of the way their brain was designed. Suppressed is because something has messed with the person to the point they are no longer able to engage with something that is there. It’s walled off.

              I don’t see asexuals as walled off. They haven’t been cut off from their sexual desire, they don’t have it. They can’t be “fixed” because they’re not broken.

              For me this distinction is huge. Broken things should be fixed if at all possible. The person cut off from their sexuality is suffering, even if they don’t see it. When part of us is cut off, any part, we suffer for it.
              Paul Byerly recently posted…Sex, Self-Control, and The BibleMy Profile

              • Very insightful. I agree with this distinction. I was suppressed for the first decade or so of my adult life. I still don’t know for sure why, although a big part of it was probably my Christian belief that extra-marital sex is wrong, so I just suppressed any thought of sex and didn’t feel any desire for it or physical interest in anyone. Like Amazing Ace described, I honestly didn’t understand why it was so hard for most people to control themselves. So I was functionally asexual then.

                In college I met my future husband and, despite not feeling much physical desire, began a romantic relationship. I thought after we were married, we would figure out how to have good sex, but that didn’t happen. It was painful initially, and eventually somewhat pleasurable but never satisfying. I knew sex was important to a marriage, so I put a lot of effort into trying to please him, but it was really one-sided; he gave up on trying to do much for me when nothing worked. It took most of a decade of marriage, and a lot of frustration and searching books and blogs like this one for answers, before I started breaking through the suppression and feeling true arousal and physical desire, and several more months before I was able to orgasm at all. Now, another year later, I’m much more in tune with my physical needs, and my drive is higher than his, but sadly his testosterone is low, so he still has no ability to turn me on or satisfy me. Our marriage has never been sexually strong, but it’s fraying now.

                Anyway, I thought it would be useful to hear the other side of the coin, from someone that used to be suppressed but is no longer, and the problems that can cause. (I also read the ace articles linked below, and until recently, I had a lot of those signs.)

      • I’d be interested to hear how the husband felt about his wife not needing sex for herself and having trouble physically responding. Don’t most men prefer to give their wives sexual pleasure? Something must have caused him to suspect and suggest she was asexual.
        Did he express his feelings?

        • I would be interested in hearing more about how the husband felt about it myself. To the best of my knowledge, it’s true that most allosexual folks (regardless of gender) do seem to like giving pleasure to their partners, as well as receive it themselves. There seems to be an emotional component to sex that requires a certain amount of reciprocity for it to be enjoyable for both parties.

          A lot of mixed orientation relationships with asexuals fail for this reason; allosexual partners can’t always handle the fact that their partner can never fully reciprocate their feelings. The success of such relationships depends on how well the allosexuals partner is able to accept the gift their asexual partner is offering, when they choose to have sex because it makes their partner happy, not because they want or need it themselves. Not everyone is capable of accepting this gift; it makes some feel too guilty, knowing they will never be able to give their asexual partner a similar gift in return.

          There were probably a lot little signs of asexuality the husband picked up on, rather than just one big one. They kind of add up over time, until all other possible explanations for it seem increasingly unlikely, and finally there will be one last straw that makes one say, “wait . . . I think my wife/husband might be asexual!” If you are interested in reading about some of the possible signs of asexuality, here’s a link to a good article (part 1 in a 3 part series, that I highly recommend reading in its entirety) on the topic:

          • @Amazing Ace – I replied to Jolie before I read your comment. Sounds like the man we talked to sees and received the gift.
            I do know the issue of sexual pleasure, with or without orgasm, is all over the board for asexuals. Some feel a need for release, but no need to do it with another person. Some can take it or leave it, some have no interest, and some like the lady we talked to find it all but impossible to do it. As I understand it being asexual is about not feeling a sexual desire for other people, nothing more.
            Paul Byerly recently posted…Increase Your Distress Tolerance for A Better MarriageMy Profile

            • You understand correctly, Paul. *thumbs up* It’s true, being asexual is only defined as not experiencing sexual attraction/desire for others, and that that definition can tell you nothing about how an individual ace feels about having partnered sex personally, whether they are sex positive, indifferent, it repulsed. You’re right to say that it’s all over the boards for us; it can vary so widely from person to person! Its amazing, really, just how much variety there is within the asexual community. It’s such a wonderful community, and I feel quite blessed to be a part of it! :)

        • @Jolie – I suspect he had issues with it before we talked. By the time we talked to them he was doing well with it. I’m sure he would have liked to have her desire him, but she was from what I can tell an active lover who was available and possibly doing some initiating. I guess “I will do this because I love you” is similar to “I want you”.
          Neither of them had any previous sexual experience, so he had nothing to compare to. I’m sure he would like to give his wive orgasmic pleasure, but he clearly gives her pleasure and enjoyment in other ways.
          I have no doubt this man loves his wife. She’s not perfect, but who is? I think he has embraced the idea of loving the package deal and feels blessed by what he has.
          Paul Byerly recently posted…Increase Your Distress Tolerance for A Better MarriageMy Profile

          • I’m happy to hear about him loving his ‘package deal’.
            That’s beautiful. He is very special indeed. She is a very blessed wife.

  5. That phrase was great ” In the bad old days”!

    • I’m confused by that phrase too, and his use of the past tense. Like . . . the “bad old days” never left. People still victim blame women, people still think it’s women’s job to keep men from getting too arouse, both within the church and without. To add further confusion, Paul then goes on in the very same post to criticize women who he thinks don’t dress modestly enough, and the Free the Nipple movement. Which is, I’ll admit, a silly movement when we have much bigger fish to fry when it comes to social injustices, but that’s beside the point. He’s allowed to think that women shouldn’t go topless in public, it’s a perfectly legitimate opinion to hold.

      HOWEVER, if he doesn’t think men shouldn’t be allowed to be topless in public either, doesn’t hold men to the same standard of behavior, then his opinion is just one more sexist double standard that places an undue and disproportionate amount of blame and responsibility on women to not get men too aroused. He’s contributing to the problem without realizing it. Bad old days, indeed.

      Care to weigh in, Paul? Perhaps you can explain what you meant, ’cause I can only speculate and that only gets one but so far.

      • All people should dress modestly, but if my husband mows our lawn topless, no one cares. If I did, I would have some pretty mad and embarrassed neighbors. Why? Because God created the female breasts to be sexual and functional. And I hate that this free the nipple campaign (ironically fronted by many porn stars and actresses who make their money off of the sexuality of their breasts) is trying to remove the sexuality of the female breast and make it the same as men’s. All they are doing is getting sunburns and laughed at by guys thanking them for the free porn.

        There are some double standards in life. If hubby and I argued and all 120 lbs of me hauled off and hit him, it wouldn’t even leave a red mark. Cops probably wouldn’t be called, and hubby would probably laugh at my feeble efforts. If he hauled off and hit me, he could knock me unconscious and break my jaw with just one swing. I would need a strong weapon to kill a man. Hubby could kill me with his bare hands in mere minutes.

        My sons can run around in their undies and everyone thinks it is cute. My daughters haven’t hit puberty yet, but people can already see their budding beauty and prospective sexuality. Women are inherently beautiful and our bodies are naturally sexually charging.

        We get pregnant. Men don’t. They seem to have the unfair advantage of sex without strings. We are stuck with the pregnancy and baby or the expense and consequences of an abortion.

        We are not equal in that we are not exactly alike and the same standards don’t always work.

        The average woman entering the military cannot usually keep up with the men’s physical fitness standards. It does them physical harm. I know several gals, personally, who ended up being discharged because they were injured because of the physical training. I know another woman who was able to kick butt physically and keep up with the guys. She is also of average male height, not female height, and trained most of her life. Plus, she could not sustain her career once family life started. The military doesn’t adjust physical fitness tests for pregnancy and post partum. War doesn’t get easier or nicer because a breast feeding mom is trying to pump while looking for land mines.

        We should all be treated with human dignity, and I sorely wish men would cover up. I especially hate the topless show boating they do during the summer. Total turn-off. I seriously don’t want to see man nipples.

      • @Amazing Ace – I see this as a matter of causing a brother or sister to stumble. I have learned there are women who find a bare-chested man a struggle, so I would say men should avoid doing that. Given what I know of biology I know the average woman is far less affected by this than the average man, but it’s still offering temptation and that’s wrong.

        My comment on free the nipple is based on the fact those who feel that way either don’t understand how a naked breast affects a man, don’t care, or want to have said effect. I don’t find any of those a good thing.

        As for “bad old days”, it was a slap at those who think it was the good old days. It was not in many ways, including what we are discussing here. I agree it’s still a mess, but overall I’d say it’s better now.
        Paul Byerly recently posted…Sex, Self-Control, and The BibleMy Profile

        • That’s good; I certainly don’t want my siblings stumbling either. The next time you feel like criticizing women for being immodest or going topless in a post, please be sure to take a moment to actually say that you don’t approve of menbeing immodest or going topless in public either. Otherwise you’re just perpetuating double standards, which is far from what you had intended.

          So it was a slap at the “good old days” concept, huh? That’s fine, it certainly deserves it! That wasn’t the part I found confusing, though. I was confused by your seeming to think that those days were over and done, that women aren’t still shamed for dressing or acting in certain ways, that men aren’t still thought to be mindless slaves to their sex drives. That way of thinking is still very much alive and well in the world today. It’s not better than it was in generations past, it’s just different. The standards have shifted, but they’re still in effect. But on one thing we do agree: it’s certainly one very big mess!

  6. Here’s another analogy (sorry, Paul, but my mind is working OT on this topic).

    I used to love magazines like People, Us, and OK. They were entertaining, and since my God-adoring grandmother read them, I figured it was ok. (No National Enquirer…that was bad…kind of like a husband excusing his porn use choices and feeling better about them because he doesn’t look at worse stuff).

    I saw the magazines as simply entertainment. I did not see them for what they were…gossip and slander…both sins.


    1. I didn’t see the celebrities as humans in need of Christ. I saw them as entertainment consumables…objects.

    2. I figured it isn’t my fault if they put themselves out there to be photographed or scrutinized. No one forced them to become celebs…plus, they are getting a ton of money and cushy lifestyle. (Sounds similar to the excuses guys give about porn stars…never mind that they are losing their souls and users are contributing to it).

    3. It isn’t like I am producing the magazines and writing the gossip. I am just reading what is already out there. If they didn’t make it, i wouldn’t read it. It’s provocative and interesting, an escape, entertaining…it doesn’t mean I envy them, or want to gossip about them. (Gee fellows, sound familiar?)

    4. I didn’t obsess over the magazines. I simply enjoyed them when available. I wouldn’t buy them for myself, but if made available easily for me, sure I indulged! No harm so long as I am not wasting money on them, or seeking them out (gee, sounds like my husband’s justification for watching sex-filled series and movies and YouTube videos). I didn’t read them to gossip or hate or anything, just escape and be entertained…

    I was “clean” from celebrity gossip for a while. Didn’t have access to the magazines. Then, a free subscription started coming in the mail. I didn’t order, just one of those temptation complimentary subscriptions. I immediately felt a check in my spirit and I realized these magazines are sinful and it is sinful to participate. Gossip, envy, discontent, idleness, idolatry…all sins that can come out of it…even lust. I actually felt sick to my stomach just thumbing through it and I threw it out.

    To participate in sin, even if we don’t care to sin ourselves is wrong. A husband going to a bar knowing it is topless hour with the intent to just get a quick drink with the guys is still wrong. A wife reading a smutty romance novel because she loves historic fiction is still wrong even if she isn’t reading it to intentionally be aroused by the sex scenes.

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