Decoding the Male Mind
Why He Thinks It’s A Game
Last week over on The Generous Husband I used the word “game” in talking about a woman who won’t clearly tell her husband what she wants. Some of the women reading along took issue with that word. Some of the men seconded my feelings.
For men it’s very simple; if you don’t clearly ask for what you want, you’re playing games. To paraphrase one fellow’s comment, if there are rules it’s a game, and if you haven’t been told the rules it’s a game you can’t win.
I’m not saying this to prove any woman is intentionally playing games. Rather, it’s my trying to show you a common thing men feel. Denying his reality doesn’t change it, and telling him he’s wrong just seems like another game.
I know some of you are convinced your husband gets most if not all of your hints. What if he does get them, but he doesn’t want to reward game playing? I’m not suggesting that’s a right thing for him to do, but I know it happens. The other factor is if you don’t ask he doesn’t have to say no. He can then tell himself he doesn’t say no to you. Is that a game? Probably, but you set him up for it, and you can stop it. Make him say no so he is aware how often he refuses you!
As I have been thinking about this the last few days, I thought of all the places God tells us to ask Him for what we want and need. There are easily a dozen verses along these lines in the New Testament, and far more than that in the Old. James 4:2b puts a fine point on it, saying “You do not have, because you do not ask.” [ESV]
God knows what we want, yet we’re told to ask Him. How much more must that apply to humans, including your husband?
~ Paul – I’m XY, and I’ve never felt my wife was playing games.
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Oh, ha ha. Last night my husband and I went to a book club meeting to decide on next year’s books. He had an armload of his suggestions and I had mine. I said, “Are you going to put the books in a bag?” He said no, so I figured, ok. Later, as we retrieved the books from the back seat, the floor of the back seat, under the seats, and juggled them into the building for the meeting, I said, “I guess we should have put the books in a bag.” He: “We could have put them in the bag I had right by the door.” Me: “Yes, that’s what I suggested.” He: “I didn’t think of that bag. You need to be more specific.” Silly me with my indirect hinting around. Next time: “PUT THE BOOKS INTO THE BAG RIGHT BY THE DOOR SWEETHEART”. But you know what, I think he was hinting to me, too: “You should do it.” My dad always said, if you want a thing done right, do it yourself.
Just to say a little more about this: do you see how it’s a lose-lose for the woman? If you say it right out, you’re a nag or a controller or a witch. If you don’t, you’re playing games, you don’t communicate, etc.
@Lynn -I can see that, but it depends on the man. A lot of men would be fine with just saying it.
Besides, saying something once is not nagging, and if he thinks it is then he needs to deal with his stuff.
I think some men like games because they feel justified in ignoring them. I say don’t give him that choice.
A game changer for us in communication (because hubby is just as bad at it as I am) is the Bible Verse Matt. 5:37…..basically, let your yes mean yes and your no mean no.
Let’s look at our sex life communication. It was all about hints and non communication. I didn’t realize I wasn’t initiating sex. I thought I was, but I was really initiating for him to initiate sex. He thought I was playing games of bait and switch.
After years of huge issues and a few giant arguments I made the rule of clearly ask, clearly answer. So NOT sexy (but arguing and refusal and confusion aren’t sexy, either). After about 2 years of clearly asking and responding, we began to know each other better to the point where we can just use hints, flirts, etc. If they don’t work, if hubby or I don’t catch on, we revert to asking clearly.
I discovered that boldly asking IS sexy. It has boosted my confidence. And when it is answered with a clear, enthusiastic “yes” it leaves no doubts and that is sexy, too.
We need to get out of Hollywood fairy land and romance novels and into reality.
@Libl – Great thoughts. And a guy certainly thinks it’s sexy when a woman boldly asks!
Not always. My husband is lower drive than I am, and went through a phase that lasted many years that when I boldly asked it upset him – because he had to say no and come up with an excuse. It made me feel repulsive after it happened dozens of times. So I stopped asking to spare us both the pain.
Thankfully that part of our marriage has improved a little bit. But I no longer boldly ask because I’m afraid of the rejection.
It doesn’t take away the pain. It just lets him off the hook for facing his issues and gives you another area of hurt and self-loathing, and resentment.
I think the reason the word “game” bothers me so much, is it makes it sound as if the man thinks the woman is intentionally causing trouble. So where my thought process is hopeful and longing, – maybe craving to be loved for once without having to specifically ask for it, I felt you made it sound like women are purposely muddying the waters to trick and confuse men. I assure you, in my case, that is not my intention.
Am I selfish? Quite possibly. But I desperately long to just once know what it’s like to be seen as worthy of a gift or a special evening without having to beg for it. Without having to plan it myself. Just to be worth something to someone, preferably my husband. No games, just maybe being a little bit special to him.
I’m sorry but I don’t agree that men can’t figure things out. My husband runs multi million dollar construction jobs, makes decisions and gives orders every day. He deals with his boss, his crew workers, owners, engineers, inspectors, architects, the public, etc. He knows what they want and how to keep them relatively happy. Without being told. If a client is unhappy, he figures out how to correct that. Because he cares about them. He cares about them a lot.
I would just like to know what it feels like to be as important to him as some engineer or a client. Or the lady who is upset that she can’t park in a construction zone. He always knows what to do in those situations. Am I that much harder to figure out? Or just not worth the same effort?
I still don’t see it as game playing. I’m not making up arbitrary rules. But I’m not going to beg to be loved.
I’m in a rush this morning, but I have so much more to say on the subject. (Shocking, I know 😊)
B, You know what all those multi-million dollar projects have? Contracts, plans, more plans, spec books, samples, punchlists, inspection reports, bids, I could go on. 50% of the cost of just about anything built is spent on cordination and logistics. How do I know? I own a million dollar construction company. You’ve got a blind spot and it’s ruined 20+ years of your marriage, how much longer will you allow it to continue.
Your old friend, “Bob”
Well, first of all, my marriage isn’t ruined. It’s had its ups and downs, but it has not been 20 years of all bad stuff.
Secondly, contrary to what you want to think, the downs in my marriage have not all been caused by me. I have stood by my husband through unbelievable stresses. I love and support him and am not the complete ogre you want to cast me as. I have tolerated a lot, as has he. Neither of us is perfect, but I will not accept 100% of the blame. My husband has made his fair share of mistakes as well.
Third, are you listening to yourself? You are answering from a very man-centric view. You know, if anything, I hope me sharing my struggles here can somehow help a man out there understand how his wife might be feeling. You did not even listen to anything I said about my thought process or how I feel, or what I long for. I get it that men don’t like emotions. That doesn’t mean they aren’t valid or worth paying attention to (the emotions, I mean). Just because a wife thinks differently, does that automatically mean she’s wrong? No. Unless I’m mistaken, understanding our differences is a big part of what Paul’s marriage ministry is about.
And lastly, I get there are blueprints and spec books and all that tell you how to build the structure or make the repairs. But what about when something changes? If you own a large company I’m sure you know some things engineers come up with are not practical in the field. Weather is a huge issue. Crews get into arguments. People get fired. Customers are demanding. The public ignores barricades and drives through wet concrete. Building owners make ridiculous demands. There are no books or prints for all of that. And yet, my husband is able to handle all of it. All while maintaining a professional demeanor. He knows how to make grumpy customers, and even outrageous members of the public, calm down and be happy. Without hints. Without someone telling him directly what to do. Because he cares about them. And it’s hurtful when you realize the man who claims to love you is more interested in the happiness of some random stranger than in the happiness of his wife.
And what’s crazier is, I’m not that hard to please. I don’t demand expensive gifts or dinners or vacations. It’s not the expense of anything, it’s just knowing that I crossed his mind. That is what would make me happy. If I have to “remind” him that he loves me and then have to ask him for things that would show that love, then he never wanted to give it in the first place. That’s what guys don’t seem to get. I can’t speak for all women, but I know for myself, if I have to ask for something, then you’re only giving it to me because you feel obligated. Not because you wanted to do something to make me smile. Because I would be happier with a handful of flowers from the side of the road than I would with a bouquet from the store that I had to ask for. It’s not a game. It’s really a very simple concept. That’s what makes not asking so special. Knowing you meant enough to the person for them to take five minutes to do something thoughtful for you because they WANTED TO, not because you told them to.
B,
No one said it was all your fault or that you were an ogre. What I said was you’ve ruined 20+ years of your marriage. By that I mean this, you haven’t enjoyed it or felt loved and therefore, he hasn’t much either.
You want him to naturally do these things (and your happiness and sense of feeling loved depend on it) and your excuse you tell yourself to feel sorry for yourself is he “naturally” does these things elsewhere without prompting, nagging or reminding. But what I am telling you is there are a literally thousands of prompts, nags, reminders, emails, paperwork, texts, phonecalls, sticky notes not only reminding him but detailing how things are to be done. You are wondering why he succeeds at one and fails at another, but you are factoring in NONE, absolutely NONE, of the pathway/journey/logistics/communication to get to success. You want to know why he succeeds at one? Because the journey is clearly defined, marked and communicated and there are quite literally check lists along the way that have to met. One is not a mystery, one is. But you keep on telling yourself he must naturally get the mystery or he doesn’t love you, it is serving you quite well. And remember this very “man centric” post is written from someone who has spent dozens of hours investing in your marriage in counsel and prayer. What have I got to gain?
@B “I think the reason the word “game” bothers me so much, is it makes it sound as if the man thinks the woman is intentionally causing trouble.”
That is exactly what men think, and it’s why they call it a game. I’m not saying that means it’s what the woman is doing, but odds are he thinks it is.
I think what Libl said about sex is instructive. When they stopped hinting and just spoke plainly they both learned how to read the other. The result was hints started to work, but they both remained willing to be blunt when needed.
It sounds to me like you married one kind of man and now you want him to be different. If that[‘s the case you can keep being hurt he’s still the man you married, or you can make a change.
We men are terrible at getting hints. My wife has told me there have been three times she was in the mood and hinted at me and I was oblivious. That means that three times in our marriage I wasn’t aware and missed out on…..
Excuse me…..
I need to go and mourn now….
Perhaps men are oblivious because they don’t want anyone to figure them out, dreading the discovery that they are simple arithmetic compared to the Chebyshev polynomials that describe their wives.
“The other factor is if you don’t ask he doesn’t have to say no. He can then tell himself he doesn’t say no to you. Is that a game? Probably, but you set him up for it, and you can stop it. Make him say no so he is aware how often he refuses you!”
But that is STILL JUST A GAME – because if you ask TOO MUCH, you are a sex maniac, care only about sex, don’t care about the spouses “feelings”, a jerk, and the source of all the problems. But if you ask TOO LITTLE, and then complain about the lack of sex you get “Well you didn’t ask!” and blamed for acting the victim, lack of communication, and making the “feel bad”.
So I’ve got to walk that thin, unseen, and unknowable line between asking too much or too little, and if I waver EVEN THE SLIGHTEST to one side or the other, its my fault, I get blamed, ignored, and castigated for whichever side I fall on.
At least if I go to the “don’t ask a lot” side, and give up getting things to change, I won’t get rejected over and over and over yelled at for being a sex maniac. At least there is peace, however sick and twisted it is.
@John – Or you address it and call it what it is. I know that’s a big risk, but it just might make a positive change in the long run.
As the old saying goes, “it’s the thought that counts”. If you have to spell out exactly what you want, then the other person is obviously not putting in any thought. It does hurt when you know they’re not giving it any thought without you cattle prodding them into it. I suspect women spend much more time trying to figure out their husbands than the reverse. It feels a bit insulting.
@A – Women have more of their brains devoted to this kind of thing. Not just because they choose to, the parts of their brains that pick up on hints are bigger, as is the part of the brain that does empathy. When a woman assumes a man can do what she does she is dead wrong. Some men are better than others, but very few are as good as the women who are the least good at it. If she gets upset when he doesn’t do what he’s not built to do, she causes all kinds of problems.
The frustrating thing is I can say this a thousand times in a hundred ways and some women will still won’t believe it. Those women’s suffering is of their own doing, and they make life difficult for their husband in the process.
If a man is willing to give his wife what she asks for, isn’t that good enough?
I think a direct request works well for a specific, tangible want. I can ask, “please watch the kids while I go see a movie” and it’s usually fine. But if I ask for compliments, it feels self defeating and usually he can’t come up with anything to say. I can’t write a script, it won’t mean anything. And if what you want is a romantic surprise (like the surprise party mentioned above) asking totally ruins it. It’s like wanting your spouse to initiate sex – you can’t do it for them.
@A – Good division of two different things – thanks!
A game with lesser stakes is the Restaurant Game.
Husband: “Where do you want to eat?”
Wife: “Doesn’t matter, you pick. I’m fine with whatever.”
Husband “X?”
Wife: “Oh no, X is too adjective. Pick something else.”
Husband: “Y?”
Wife: ” No, I just ate Y last week… but really, anything else is fine.”
Wife: “Ugh, I don’t want Z… let’s go somewhere else….”
Husband: “Where would you like to eat?”
Wife: “Oh, I don’t care… please just man up and pick something….”
Most men that I know have unwillingly played the restaurant game before. It certainly does feel like a game with hidden rules; it certainly feels like intentional obfuscation. It feels like being the rube at a carnival game; even if you know the simple “rules” of the game the game is rigged to make actually winning very hard.
My husband plays the restaurant game and I can’t stand it!! I can see why guys hate these games because hubby plays them with me. He puts the decisions on my shoulders and then gets grumpy, pouty, mopey, or angry if I choose “wrongly.”
He doesn’t do this much, anymore. I told him to like it or lump it. Once he found out I could enjoy myself without him, that he was only hurting himself, he pretty much stopped.
Why was he like this? He felt, thanks again to the crazy women in his past, that his no had no power, so all he could do was sabotage. Letting him know he had veto power and I can respect his no made a HUGE difference.
@Libl – “Once he found out I could enjoy myself without him, that he was only hurting himself, he pretty much stopped.”
Yup, that tends to fix it.
Yes, women play games, not just with their husbands. Work in a place that is majority female, every HR person will tell you it is a giant pain to deal with. Women just get the games other women are playing, they get the subtle hints and innuendos, so they don’t see it as a game. At my last job a woman complained that she was discriminated against because she didn’t get a promotion that went to a male she was better qualified than….the problem was she never applied for the position or even told her boss (who was also female) that she was even interested, in fact 9 men and only one woman applied…..yet she was outraged the company didn’t get her hint.
In relationships, I agree with Libl, if you want something you ask for it stone sober in plain English in the clear light of day, if not your husband doesn’t conclusively know what you want. Dealing with socially awkward and passive aggressive men, this is called a covert contract, essentially only one side knows about it but gets mad when the other half isn’t upheld. I used to do this with date night, I would get pissed every time we had a date night but didn’t have sex. I stopped doing date nights because I got so angry about this, my wife had no idea that I didn’t consider it a fun evening without sex, and nothing changed until I told her straight up.
I don’t like working with women, either. The worst sexual harassment and emotional abuse on a job was in an all-female company. I prefer working with serious, professional men.
Even in friendships, I am more likely to befriend a man than a woman, which makes for a lonely life because of Mike Pence style rules.
A few thoughts I had after reading through this. Differences n anatomy in men and women make it not so obvious if a woman is sexually interested, while for a man it’s clear. Now it’s true that in some cases an erection doesn’t mean he needs sex, or that it’s particularly the best thing at that particular moment, but it also doesn’t mean he wouldn’t enjoy it. Now sexual interest on the part of a man cant be faked. There may be many reasons for it, and medical issues are only one. A generous husband can take care of the wife’s needs if the issue is medical, but otherwise the marriage has bigger issues than their sex life.
In other areas,like the restaurant game my rule of thumb is if I ask and the reply is that I should pick, then we go where I pick or we don’t go at all. My point of view is I gave her the option to choose and she didn’t take it. In so doing she loses any right to complain about where we go. I spent a huge part of my marriage trying to figure out the gift thing with mixed success. Both my wife and i tended to gift things we wanted for the other rather than what THEY wanted. After 40+ years of this, I ask her what she wants and she tells me. For me, who doesn’t particularly care about gifts, if I don’t ask for something specific, I would prefer to get nothing at all, although, FTR, in my case at least, sexual favors are never the wrong gift,regardless of the occasion.
@Libl – “Once he found out I could enjoy myself without him, that he was only hurting himself, he pretty much stopped.”
unfortunately that doesn’t work with sex and intimacy, since, if you are a Christian, enjoying yourself without your spouse is not just frowned upon, but is considered by most to be a reason to divorce you. And everyone in your peer group will be cheering them on as they do, and blame, castigate, and shame you as it being your fault.
Sounds like a peer group you should depart
Well, I went through years of refusal, so I get it. Still took care of myself, but still sought answers.
I really have to comment on the restaurant scenario. You can avoid this by saying, not ‘where do you want to go’ but ‘would you rather go to X or to Y’.
@Lynn – And from some, you would get “I don’t care”. But at least they have then said either is okay.
Paul, it’s the word “game.” What happens in a game, though it may seem important at the time, doesn’t really matter. It’s not “real life”—it’s just a game. But this matters to women! And the word also connotes childishness or immaturity. It’s telling women their natural instincts for relationship are silly and childish. So it’s one thing to explain to women that men don’t do subtle and wives need to speak up for what they desire and be specific, and certainly not expect him to pick up on hints, and a whole other thing to accuse them of playing games. That’s where this is coming off really bad for some women.
Look, I concur with your general point that men feel blindsided and played with, because they cannot figure out what their wives want and want to be told straight-up. I’m all over that plan, and I agree with on it 100%. But word choice matters, especially since telling wives it’s a “game” can become the focus of conversation (and debate) rather than the primary point you’re trying to make.
I’m XX, and I do not play games. But I had to learn how my husband worked, and he had to learn how I worked. That’s marriage.
@J. Parker – My initial use of the word was on TGH. I used it because it’s the word men use for what I was talking about.
My intent here was to explain why men call it a game; what they mean by that.
It’s not the situation that men see as a game, it’s how it’s done. Men see it as women turning real life into a game.
All that said, yeah, word choice matters, and both spouses would do well to figure out how the other works. Some men give up even trying because they see games they think are rigged. I doubt that is the case as often as men think, but it does happen.